After some HEAVY tanking work this weekend, in which Gilly dinged 18 and Hyperthermian dinged 15, 16, 17, and 18 (YAY!), this post has some relevance to me: Guide to Herding
Why do we herd? That is a good question with several different responses. The one that we will focus on in this discussion is to herd villains up into a tight and manageable group so that a team can quickly and effectively deal with a dangerous situation. A responsible tanker herds to ensure his teams safety during a potentially debt ridden encounter, not to just expedite the completion of a mission. Please remember that the bottom line for a tanker is the safety of your group. So the “why do we herd” reasonably needs to be answered with something along the lines of “helping to protect your wards”.
Wow…I didn’t know that Hype was on that much, Congrats!
And it was nice to see Gilly out and about again…she is so much fun.
I learned about the corner thing by accident. Works real good with around the corner pulling.
I would rather not do the FindEverythingOnTheMapAndPutItIntoABigMass Herd thing that I have seen a few times. With Roben, I am much more comfortable with the “one mob at a time” approach. Even with Invincible and Taunt going, I just feel better at being able to hold a smaller groups aggro then larger groups.
I fear Roben is not up to the Cap’n’s standards/abilities yet.
With Hype, at 18, I’m using Taunt (only) to manage aggro (lots of Fire tanks use Burst to attack everyone nearby and keep the nearby folks aggro — I don’t — i’d like to, but I frankly don’t know what I’d give up to get the power). With just Syn (Kin/Psy def) backing me up, I can pull anywhere from 10 to 20 yellows with oranges for color with no problem and melt em down with Burn (my level 18 power that really defines the powerset) in about a minute. A couple reds and a half-dozen oranges are no problem. (Again, that’s with things like Density Increase from Syn making me Uber.)
It seems to work about the same with Gilly since I respecced her out of Temp Invul and can actually fight for awhile without running out of end… I was tanking four or five reds with no real problem… but she’s tougher than Hype.
He just kicks more ass.
Ok…Roben and Gilly are on about the same Page then. I never took Temp Invul because I had read that is was a HUGE end sink.
Roben can pull and keep about the same amount as you say you can with Gilly without much problem (best I’ve done is 10 minions and two bosses). I guess I am just annoyed with most people expecting inv/ss tank to be like a fire tank.
I am enjoying invulnerability. With that unyealding, and Dull pain, Roben can sit there an take it for a really long time.
Temp Invul is the thing to get, like… after you get Stamina… drop a couple damres in it, and you’ll max your smash/lethal, which is cool.
But definitely.. I respecced out of it until after Stamina, AND dropped Haymaker til later, which might have been rash, but oh well.
Hmmm. Velvet’s definitely been withering for lack of endurance (still pre-Stamina — I think that shows up next level) — and she’s been depending on Temp Invuln as her “stand up to bullets” power.
So, what — just Unyielding + Dull Pain?
Ummm….
Roben has the auto one you get at first, Dull Pain, Unyelding, and Invulnerable.
At 18, Gilly has:
Maxed out Resist Physical Damage
Maxed out Unyeilding (defining Invul power)
Brand-spanking new Invulnerability (defining Invul power)
Jab
Punch
Brawl
That’s it. Two toggles. Two powered attacks — I could probably have kept Haymaker in the respec, but whatever — endurance was SUCH a problem I dropped both haymaker and Temp Invul in favor of maxing slots on Unyeilding and getting set up to have Stamina right at 20.
She’ll have Stamina at 20, then I’ll pick up Temp Invul and the energy/fire/ice passive resists when I’m not picking up all the punch-based attacks I can get (to make up for never getting Foot-stomp).
Okay, I can respec V to not take the two Resist Energy/Elements powers until far later, and wait on Temp Invuln until 22 or so. Until that time, though, running the numbers gives her slightly more than half the the Resist on Smashing, Lethal (42 vs 76), Energy and Elements (26 vs 49), which is a real disad in my eyes.
TI takes .38/sec, meaning net end per sec is 1.62 vs. 1.24, not an insubstantial difference.
Pondering …
That doesn’t sound… right:
I mean… okay, look at this: http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Klavias/tankerchart1.jpg
Based on that, with Just Unyeilding and RPD, Gilly has:
72% res vs. Smashing/Lethal
44% on everything else.
(adjust down for DO’s, but that’s the ballpark)
Getting basic, unslotted Temp Invul after 22 (when, conveniently, I can put SO’s in all my resistance stuff anyway) will take her over the cap on Smash/Lethal. The energy/elements resistances are nice cuz they start high and they’re passive, but you just don’t need them early cuz those kinds of attacks aren’t common, and the one’s that exist pre-25… just don’t hit that hard.
But with Invulnerability… Wow.
I do not exaggerate to say that that power changes the life of your Invul Tanker. Period. Not taking it ASAP at 18 is like… having an energy blaster who doesn’t take Snipe, or a fire tanker who doesn’t take Burn. 🙂
Defining. Power.
Maybe the distinction is the SO numbers — I’ve been calcing off of TOs — which, of course, is more applicable at the lower levels. I’ll check it out in DOs (since I’m (cough) not 6-slotting SOs yet) this evening to see the numbers.
As an aside, every INV/SS build guide I see uses TI very early on, just because of the huge DR boost it provides from the get-go.
But I’ll give it another look. I did up a respec build for Velvet with Invuln and Stamina that I can implement pretty quickly if I can make it work that way.
You’re right. Lots of guides say to get TI early. I found one that didn’t. I like their reasoning better.
1. You only have to go without anything but RPD until level 8, when you can get Unyeilding.
2. Up to about level 10, every AT can give and take about the same amount of damage.
Conclusion: you don’t need the TI toggle right off, because the incoming damage up til then isn’t unmanageable, and that lets you pick up more of your secondary, so the fights finish faster.
I’ll be very happy when I get TI back, yes*. But right now, I’m even happier when all my toggles don’t drop in the middle of a fight.
((* — I’m actually considering not getting it at all. I could get Tough from the Fighting Pool, which resist everything, just like Unyeilding… that’s two toggles, plus Invulnerability. Then I just pick up the passives and go over the cap on everything but psychic. Huh.))
All makes sense. Hmmm.
More discussion (for Velvet) here.